We’ve reached the part of the war propaganda story arc where all the shills start adopting the anti-war talking points, while not acknowledging that this is a complete reversal of their original position. I came across this poast by one Richard Banana where he concludes that of course Ukraine is going to have to give up the Donbas, only some low human capital would think otherwise. While completely disregarding the fact that this has been a major anti-war talking point the entire time, he still manages to impugn his interlocutors by constructing a ridiculous “anti-Ukraine” straw man to attack, thusly:
Ukrainians are bravely dying for their country, the Catturds of the world, the stupid, the conspiracy theorists, the esluts, all sit there laughing at them. American demagogues telling their fat audiences that spending on Ukraine is the reason their lives are so hard. The most privileged morally bankrupt people in the world lecturing those who are experiencing real hardship and showing actual bravery. The anti-Ukraine movement is disgusting, I don't want these people to win.
So let’s just be clear, being “anti-war” is not being “anti-Ukraine.” I have nothing but the deepest sympathy for the Ukrainian conscripts who were rounded up into “recruitment” vans and shipped to the front with 3 days of training. I have sympathy for the Territorial Defense Brigades, who, because they were deemed “expendable” due to their lack of training and Western equipment, were often ordered into suicidal “blocking” engagements, to allow the more “valuable” NATO-trained troops to retreat in good order. I feel sympathy for the Ukrainians that volunteered as well, even the Azov guys (after all, I’m pretty far right myself these days). From their perspective, their country was being invaded, and they signed up to defend it. My friends and I did something similar after 9/11 (Banana didn’t).
I even feel some sympathy for Zelenskyy (although it has been evaporating over time). Yes, he made many mistakes, but again, he was doing what he thought was best for his country based on the information he had. He also had limited options as he was leading a small, poor country, caught in-between two larger empires. But the reality is this war could have been entirely prevented, and once it began, a negotiated settlement could have been reached immediately.
All Zelenskyy had to do to avoid this war was abide by the Minsk Accords that his government had already agreed to back in 2015. That is to say, recognize the independence of the separatist regions of Donetsk and Lugansk, and agree not to join NATO. Instead, lulled by false promises by feckless Western leadership, he systematically broke the agreement, giving Russia a casus belli to invade.
Once the war began, it could have quickly ended. Zelenskyy attended peace talks with Sergei Lavrov in Istanbul as early as March 2022. The handshake deal that Zelenskyy and Lavrov had, at least verbally, agreed to, was essentially a reiteration of the Minsk Accords. In exchange for the withdrawal of Russian troops, Ukraine would recognize the independence of the Donetsk and Lugansk People’s Republics (this was before Russia officially annexed these territories), and agree never to join NATO. But, NATO torpedoed that deal. Or, more specifically, Boris Johnson, former Prime Minister of the Islamic State of Great Britain, flew to Istanbul personally to “convince” Zelenskyy not to take that deal.
What did Johnson promise and/or threaten Zelenskyy with? Who knows, but here we are, hundreds of thousands of lives later, and it looks like a peace deal will be reached whereby Russia annexes Donetsk and Lugansk, and Ukraine agrees never to join NATO. Amazing. What does Banana think about that?
I just can't see what the point of all this slaughter is. I don't think they're getting all the land back. Hundreds of thousands dead, there can be hundreds of thousands more. The border can move a few miles to the West or East as a result. For what? I don't believe Putin will move on to Poland next, this is fantasy.
Welcome to reality guy. Of course, if you had asked Banana what he thought a few months ago, he would have righteously expounded upon the “territorial integrity” of Ukraine, and insisted the war could only end once the 1991 borders were realized. But, this is the Neocon playbook, pretend you just came up with the arguments the rest of us have been saying this whole time, while refusing to acknowledge you were actually wrong. A few years from now, he will be insisting that he was opposed to the War in Ukraine the whole time.
Anyway, I know Banana is a bit of a lolcow at this point, and beating up on his shit-takes is a bit like critiquing CNN. But, this poast happened across my timeline (I don’t follow the guy) and it really just rubbed me the wrong way. If you were a pro-Ukraine guy and you feel like I’m taking the piss at you, I apologize. Honestly, I think a lot of people got suckered into the “WWII” Marvel-movie narrative by the corporate media, and it can be hard to resist if you aren’t specifically looking for it. Especially when it’s framed as the plucky underdogs vs the evil empire (what I call the Star Wars motif). If you want to learn more about the conflict in Eastern Europe, I would highly recommend Scott Horton’s timely new book, Provoked.
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There's a special place in hell for people who cheer on wars they have no personal stake in.
Totally agree, lolcow latecomers to common sense isolationism are mega lame.
For a counterbalancing reactionary perspective on Ukraine I recommend @SirJaredofHowe on Twitter, who has some pointed critiques of Provoked.